23 September 2002

Advice to Guys on Mixed Wrestling


If there were as many women interested in wrestling men, as there are men interested in wrestling women, and if they were strong enough to do it; then life would be much simpler.  But there aren't.  Perhaps one woman in a hundred is as strong as an average guy.  And most women, even those who could, aren't interested in wrestling with men.  The result is that, for most guys, the only way to get a capable woman to actually wrestle him, is to pay her to do it.  If you aren't willing to pay a woman to wrestle you,  then this web site can't help you.  The women on this site are not looking for boyfriends or casual dates who like to wrestle. 

Second, some guys are just too big and strong for almost any woman, even the ones listed here.  If you were an all conference heavyweight wrestler in college, started for 3 years at defensive tackle, and still stay in shape, you probably aren't going to find any woman here for a truly competitive match.  But if you are an ordinary guy, under 200 lb., in ordinary shape, with no particular wrestling or martial arts background, then there are a number of women on this list who probably can kick your ass.  Some of them, who are quite a bit smaller than you, are probably also quite a bit stronger, or are a more skilled wrestler than you are. 

Some of the terms that are used to describe different types of  wrestling are: competitive, semi-competitive, fantasy, dominant, and sensual.  There aren't any agreed definitions of just what these terms mean, but I'll offer some definitions here:
 

  • Competitive: In a competitive mixed match the guy is allowed or expected to try to win.  That's not a license to beat somebody up, but you do have a right to expect the woman to make a real effort to win a competitive match.  Remember, if you are wrestling a woman who is on a "tour", and who has wrestled 15 guys in the past 3 days, she may be banged up a bit, and pretty tired.  You also must expect that, in a competitive match, you may get banged up a bit yourself.  Competitive matches require a good facility; preferably with a mat and lots of room.  It's damned hard to have a proper competitive match, safely, in a hotel room, although some women do travel with mats.  No woman is ever obligated to agree to give you a competitive match, if she doesn't want to (whatever her reason). In a competitive match, neither participant should try to injure the other, but if you asked for a competitive match, and the girl treats you roughly and quickly overpowers you, remember, you asked for it.  This may be more painful and less enjoyable than you hoped.

  • Almost no woman, however strong or skilled, is interested in a competitive match with some 19 year old kid with a chip on his shoulder, who's out to prove that, "no girl can beat me."  There are a few women who will do highly competitive matches with skilled male wrestlers, but generally only after they convince themselves that they are dealing with a reasonably sane, mature guy, who's not out to hurt anybody.

  • Semi-competitive: In a semi-competitive match a guy is typically allowed to resist, but not to take the initiative and to try to win.  In a semi-competitive match, the girl is typically trying to show you that she can make you submit, and you are trying to prove that she can't.  Alternatively, a semi-competitive match may just be a competitive match on a restricted scale.  The object then is to find out who really is the stronger and better wrestler, without the intensity (and risk) of an all out competitive match.  Mixed wrestling matches are often really mismatches, and then it isn't necessary to go all out to find out who is better.  This kind of match usually starts on the knees (which often favors the guy, who typically is bigger, but doesn't know how to do a proper take down).  Some very strong women, who could put guys away very quickly, will "wrestle down" to their level, in the interest of an enjoyable experience.
  • Fantasy: In a fantasy match you are acting out some kind of fantasy and there is a scenario of some sort.  I've never really done this sort of thing, so I can't give you much advice.  I suppose that it's necessary to have some sort of scenario planned out.   Some girls like to do this, and some probably aren't too good at it.
  • Dominant: These come, I think, in two basic flavors:
    • (1) The guy really doesn't resist much.  He may let the woman begin by putting him in a hold such as a scissors.  The woman is generally trying to show that she can control the guy physically in a scissors or similar hold, or make him submit, but not necessarily that she could ever get him in that hold if he didn't cooperate.
    • (2) Alternatively, a dominant match may mean that the girl is really very much better or stronger than the guy, and rather than going for quick pins or submissions, she is going to play with him and dominate him physically.  In this case, rather than showing the guy that she can control him in a scissors (which is comparatively easy), she is showing him that she can get him in a scissors or any other hold pretty much at will, and easily force submissions whenever she wants them.
  • Sensual: In these matches the woman is going to make the guy very aware that she is a woman and go for holds, such as breast smothers, that emphasize the point.  Again, the guy may not resist much, or, in the ultimate sort of sensual match, the woman first genuinely overpowers him.  Some women will do sensual matches, and some won't.  Again, no woman is ever obligated to do a sensual match with anybody, unless she wishes to do so.
  • Martial Arts:  I don't know a lot about martial arts sessions.  As a skeptic I observe that there appears to be more BS, puffery, and generally silly, if not outright offensive and juvenile behavior on the part of supposed martial artists ("my MA is better than your MA, or your MA isn't a "true" MA, or...) than almost any other category of people I can think of (unless it's purveyors of female wrestling videos, or keepers of the true flame of female body building).  I get occasional e-mails from (male) martial arts types who appear to be plainly certifiable, just outright looney.  I sometimes think that martial arts exist to make professional wrestling seem sane, dignified and believable.  All that not withstanding, all the exotic mysticism not withstanding, and all the plainly ridiculous fight scenes in MA movies notwithstanding, some martial arts are very effective, and some practitioners are superb athletes as well as very skilled, formidable opponents.  This  includes some of the women on this list.  Some martial arts are just particular styles of wrestling, but most also allow striking.  If you're not a skilled MA person yourself, but want to do MA sessions, generally you are going to be talking about a demonstration kind of session. If you have a background in MA, you'll have to assess for yourself the ability of the woman, and the kind of matches that are practical.  For those of you who are willing to risk your front teeth, there are a couple of women on the list who will do "full contact" MA matches with men, for an understandably stiff price.  My only advice is to make sure that you have a very clear understanding with the woman bout what is to be done, your skill levels and the like, before doing a MA session.


Obviously, a single meeting can involve several kinds of wrestling, and the lines are not distinct.  So a match could be:  (1) competitive, in that both the guy and girl try to win, but (2) dominant, in that one or the other is much better and able to do what she (or he) wants at will, and (3) also involve a fantasy (perhaps the winner demonstrates her/his dominance by spanking the looser).  Of course, this would be a sort of idealized session, and you should not expect that to be the norm, or even very common 

Many women who wrestle are not particularly interested in matches where they get their asses kicked, and won't do competitive matches that they expect to loose.  Some are outright dominants, and will only do competitive matches with guys they are sure that they can beat.  That is their prerogative.  There are a few women who will wrestle just about anybody, and try to give them a good match, but this is probably not the norm.  There also are a few women who are submissive, and happy with matches they can't possibly win. 

Some guys who use this list are not into wrestling, per se, but lifts, carries, or muscle worship.  It's not the purpose of this web site to list the girls who do that, but there is a considerable overlap with those who wrestle. 

It is very important when you wrestle to understand what the rules are: what is allowed and what isn't.  For example, are you going for submissions or pins, or both.  In general scratching, hair pulling, gouging, anything that threatens eyes and chokes are forbidden, unless by prior agreement.  In submission wrestling, smothers and scissors holds are generally allowed. 

Remember to trim your nails (and toenails if you are going to wrestle barefoot) before you wrestle.  Brush your teeth, shower and shave shortly before you see the woman if at all possible, few women want to rub their skin raw on your stubble. Discuss the appropriate attire with your partner beforehand.  In general, you should be able to tap to signal submission, and the hold should always then be released.  Of course, you can agree to some other rules, but be sure you understand what they are. 

Some people are into sleeper holds.  I am sometimes asked to recommend girls who will do sleepers.  I will not make such recommendations.  My advice on sleepers is: DON'T!!  Sleepers work by pressure on the carotid artery, which shuts off the blood supply to the brain.  There is too fine a line between unconsciousness and death here.  We're not talking about some injury that you'll recover from.  We're talking about possible brain damage and death.  The first version of this paragraph implied that the brain could go as much as three minutes without oxygen.  I got the following  response from a physician:

    "Eight SECONDS can kill you.  NEVER block the carotid of a mammal unless you intend to eat it."
Some of the women on this site probably aren't that good, while some are almost unbelievably strong, and some are terrific wrestlers.  Some are a lot of fun to be with, and others are all business.  I hope you can usually tell from the comments which ones are likely to suit you.  In general,  if you are a first timer, the main thing is to be clear what type of match you are looking for.  Whatever it is that you want, it usually doesn't hurt to ask, but if what you're asking for is sex, don't necessarily expect to be accommodated. Don't be afraid of a woman just because she is very big and strong; in general these women won't try to hurt you.  Some of the meanest women are actually rather smaller.  The really big, strong women are usually very conscious of their power. 

Always be polite and courteous.  Never, ever, approach a woman from this site (or any woman) on-line, or on the phone, by taunting her or challenging her.  She will think you are a jerk.  She'll be right.  She probably won't have anything to do with you. 

This site contains a number of e-mail addresses that (at least in the case of AOL) may allow you to know when a woman is on-line and enable you to send her an immediate message (IM).  In general, don't introduce yourself to a woman by sending her an IM when she is on-line.  Send an ordinary e-mail message instead.  If you go to the AOL Fem vs Fem wrestling chat room, or the chat room on Diana the Valkyire's site you may see some of the women from this site there at times.  Feel free to talk to them there, publicly,  in the chat room.  If they don't notice you, it is probably because they are in IM conversations with somebody (actually probably several IM conversations).  Even so, it is probably better to send the woman an e-mail, than an IM (or simply repeat you message in the chat room, and wait for her to notice).  Wait for her to send you an IM, then you can IM in reply.  These girls are often deluged with guys (and a few women) trying to get their attention, when they are on-line. 

Some women are very skilled at dealing with on-line attention, and others aren't.  Some have a thick skin, and others are easily offended.  But, in either case, the woman will probably notice that you are polite, and remember you better than the boorish guys who are deluging her with IMs. You will get off to a much better start. 

When you call a woman on this list, there is a good chance are you are going to reach an answering machine or a pager.  So, before you call, know the message you want to leave.  Many of these women just get too many calls to answer the phone every time it rings, they have to eat, sleep, shop and do sessions, and during the prime afternoon and evening hours their phone may ring frequently.  They also travel.  And they get a lot of crank, obscene, confused and just plain stupid calls.  So either figure that you are going to have to call several times before you speak to anyone, or, before you call, figure out a brief, clear message telling the woman what you are calling about, and everything she needs to know to call you back (number - with area code if needed, and the best time to call back). It may be a good idea to write your message down before you make the call, so you don't forget anything.  You may also be able to make appointments by e-mail, or even by snail-mail, but some women are going to want to talk with you on the phone before they make any commitment to meet you. 

If you make an appointment, keep it. Be on time, don't be early (unless the woman has indicated that she may be free earlier) and don't be late. If a cell phone number is posted for a traveling woman, it's usually better to call it than her hotel room. If the woman asks for a confirmation call the day of your match, make the call; she may not be there if you don't. The women get no shows, and they get pretty tired of it.

The women on this site are not goddesses, in fact many are young and immature.  However, they, like other people, deserve some consideration and courtesy.  Particularly in such a potentially scary and stressful situation, as a first meeting to wrestle someone, a little civility goes a long way.  Try to be polite and straightforward with the women, and you are much more likely to have a pleasant and mutually satisfactory encounter.  But don't expect a relationship; the women want to make money wrestling, not find friends.  That's not to say that women never ever date or become involved with the guys they wrestle, but it is unusual, and you're likely be very disappointed if you expect to find a girlfriend this way.  It is not unusual for guys to fall pretty hard for the girls, and they have to learn, if that is the case, to deal with the reality of the situation. 

Finally, I get a lot of questions about fees.  They vary, depending on the woman, the kind of match, and the location.  Fees are a bit higher on the East coast, in my experience, and a little less in the Midwest and West.  Competitive matches,  quite reasonably, may cost more than most other kinds of matches.  Not surprisingly, the women normally charge what the traffic will bear.  Young guys tend to feel that the fees charged are unreasonably high, but the women on this list are not often interested in giving student discounts.  Unusually good looking women and some body builders, as well as some very good wrestlers, get a little more.  But the fee is a subject for negotiation between the woman and the man, and I never list any kind of fee schedule or range.  Discuss that directly with the woman when you contact her.
 


 

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